Wet Skid Pad Clinic / Education

[Run_Amok]

Fellas, what options exist for learning car control / gaining experience on a wet skidpad? I searched and did not find anything.

Your help is appreciated.

[sammm]

Come autocross at the TMS bus lot in the rain!

[Run_Amok]

Haha, sounds kinda like what I need. I do not want to work cone duty though.

[OZMDD]

Then plan to spend a bunch of money. Renting a site for that sort of thing ain't cheap, plus the insurance. Might find a Police Academy somewhere that will let you pay to play. Or you could just shag cones for an hour or two and spend $30...

[redmenace]

I’m kinda +1 to the above, but I’m also long-winded.

The following assumes you are interested in understanding understeer and oversteer. (I’m willing to bet there are some good videos on youtube for this, but am too lazy to search right now.)

IMO, the best way to understand these concepts is on a wet skidpad -- an empty/abandoned parking lot will do. Make sure there's nothing to hit. Establish a fixed radius with cones/boxes and drive circles at slowly increasing speed until you find the limit of traction. Then, hold that speed and WITHOUT STEERING CORRECTIONS, vary your inputs to throttle and brake to see what effects they have. An hour or two of this should help you nail down understeer and oversteer.

If you're really just starting out, then AX might be too advanced in that inducing and catching/correcting understeer and oversteer happen VERY fast on a short, tight course. But if you're serious about learning car control, you really should do at least a few AX events at some point. You might even snag some passenger laps to get a feel for the physics at play.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far away...
http://www.dfwmiata.com/threads/2089-Texas-Drift-Recap

I think Texas Drift is long gone, and I have no knowledge of smallish/grassroots events anymore. But Bryan (or is it Brian?) still coaches at MSR, where they have a skidpad, so maybe try to reach him there to pose your query. (Note that their skidpad now doubles as grid for the 1.3, so scheduling it may be difficult.) This option will be Not Cheap, but it would be Good Quality.

[Run_Amok]

Come autocross at the TMS bus lot in the rain!

Then plan to spend a bunch of money. Renting a site for that sort of thing ain't cheap, plus the insurance. Might find a Police Academy somewhere that will let you pay to play. Or you could just shag cones for an hour or two and spend $30...

Okay, how much can one learn at an Auto X event? Isn't it like four runs that are 1.5 minutes long or something like that? It seems like the repetition needed to learn car control (or anything else, for that matter) is missing from formal Auto X evets...

EDIT: When is the next TMS bus lot Auto X?

I’m kinda +1 to the above, but I’m also long-winded.

The following assumes you are interested in understanding understeer and oversteer. (I’m willing to bet there are some good videos on youtube for this, but am too lazy to search right now.)

IMO, the best way to understand these concepts is on a wet skidpad -- an empty/abandoned parking lot will do. Make sure there's nothing to hit. Establish a fixed radius with cones/boxes and drive circles at slowly increasing speed until you find the limit of traction. Then, hold that speed and WITHOUT STEERING CORRECTIONS, vary your inputs to throttle and brake to see what effects they have. An hour or two of this should help you nail down understeer and oversteer.

If you're really just starting out, then AX might be too advanced in that inducing and catching/correcting understeer and oversteer happen VERY fast on a short, tight course. But if you're serious about learning car control, you really should do at least a few AX events at some point. You might even snag some passenger laps to get a feel for the physics at play.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far away...
http://www.dfwmiata.com/threads/2089-Texas-Drift-Recap

I think Texas Drift is long gone, and I have no knowledge of smallish/grassroots events anymore. But Bryan (or is it Brian?) still coaches at MSR, where they have a skidpad, so maybe try to reach him there to pose your query. (Note that their skidpad now doubles as grid for the 1.3, so scheduling it may be difficult.) This option will be Not Cheap, but it would be Good Quality.

Heya redmenace, long-winded? Nope, I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts on this topic. What you put forth makes sense!

[general default]

Go to a local kart track. Take a friend of kid along so they can learn too. You both will have fun.

Have not been to any of these places but I am sure others can comment.

There were some fun indoor places in the Dallas.

http://www.route377gokarts.com

http://www.rockwoodgokarts.com

http://ellensac.com/games.html#1

[POS Racing]

EDIT: When is the next TMS bus lot Auto X?

Calender for 2016 Season is online - www.dfwautocross.com

[Jctattoos]

Autocross is the very best way to learn car control dynamics safely and cheaply. Being able to accurately measure your times and also having access to expert drivers and instruction is extremely valuable. Being good at controlling the vehicle and being fast in autocross will make you a much better driver in all racing and driving situations.
Standing around in the heat and cold and rain shagging cones will make the driver a less of a puss

[POS Racing]

Standing around in the heat and cold and rain shagging cones will make the driver a less of a puss

[EricJ]

Evolution School: http://www.evoschool.com/
I drove to Salina, KS for a 2 day. Do all three days if you have a chance.

[Run_Amok]

Go to a local kart track. Take a friend of kid along so they can learn too. You both will have fun.

Have not been to any of these places but I am sure others can comment.

There were some fun indoor places in the Dallas.

http://www.route377gokarts.com

http://www.rockwoodgokarts.com

http://ellensac.com/games.html#1

Thanks man! I will look into it. I would love to get my daughter in to karting.

Calender for 2016 Season is online - www.dfwautocross.com

Thank you!

Autocross is the very best way to learn car control dynamics safely and cheaply. Being able to accurately measure your times and also having access to expert drivers and instruction is extremely valuable. Being good at controlling the vehicle and being fast in autocross will make you a much better driver in all racing and driving situations.

Yes, I firmly believe this. However, I don't understand how the learning process happens at an Auto X. To my knowledge (which I am guessing is incorrect), you get four solo runs that last less that 1.5 minutes. And then you wait a few weeks or months until the next event. The necassary level of repition / seat time seems non-existant. What am I missing here? S[/QUOTE]

Standing around in the heat and cold and rain shagging cones will make the driver a less of a puss

Yeah... you guys can go ahead de-pussify in that manner

Evolution School: http://www.evoschool.com/
I drove to Salina, KS for a 2 day. Do all three days if you have a chance.

Thank you - I will check this out. A brief look shows no schools in TX, but I will contact them to see what is on the horizon.

[Jctattoos]

There are four clubs here in DFW that host autocross events. There's nearly one every weekend and sometimes two a weekend. Most clubs here have 5-10 runs from 45-90 sec range each. It does suck at times waiting around for your runs , but the driving experience is more like a drag race with turns or like controlling a roller coaster --Lots of excitement in a short time frame . Plus it's fun BSing with everyone and watching the cars on course. Most clubs have instructors available or ride alongs to help you get the most of the limited time pushing you and the car . It's all about seat time- Hope you can make it out a few times to give it a shot !

[brookso]

Yes, I firmly believe this. However, I don't understand how the learning process happens at an Auto X. To my knowledge (which I am guessing is incorrect), you get four solo runs that last less that 1.5 minutes. And then you wait a few weeks or months until the next event. The necassary level of repition / seat time seems non-existant. What am I missing here? S

Would something like Track Night in America, which is equally accessible, be better than autocross purely on dollars to seat time? Absolutely. But past a certain threshold, learning to drive quickly is very hard to improve on without instruction, and autocross is definitely the easiest way to get that.


As far as repetition goes, it's definitely important. But consider the fact that as a beginner, 60-90 seconds of hard driving followed by a few minutes of reflection and instruction on how you could get faster before you make your next run might actually be better than blasting around a track for a 20 minute session making the same mistakes over and over again.

[OZMDD]

You are more likely to test the limits and explore techniques in autox, as the consequences of mistakes are minor. The speeds involved even in something fairly tame like TNiA make a screw up potentially very costly. If you want to get a lot of seat time and get better at high speed driving, DE is excellent. If you want to really get a sense of car control and grip limits, there is no faster tool than autox, IMHO.

[CosmosMpower]

Don't try and learn car control at a HPDE if you have no prior experience, it could end in tears and empty your pocketbook.

[nomadtrash]

Equipe Rapide is hosting an autocross school on March 19th in Mineral Wells. You'll get lots of expert advice and practice on slaloms, skid pad, and autocross course. The event is not open for registration yet but when it does open it will probably fill up pretty fast. We will have 28 students with groups of about 4 students per instructor. Watch our website www.autocross.com or our facebook page for more information. We will also post on this forum to announce the event.

[Run_Amok]

There are four clubs here in DFW that host autocross events. There's nearly one every weekend and sometimes two a weekend. Most clubs here have 5-10 runs from 45-90 sec range each. It does suck at times waiting around for your runs , but the driving experience is more like a drag race with turns or like controlling a roller coaster --Lots of excitement in a short time frame . Plus it's fun BSing with everyone and watching the cars on course. Most clubs have instructors available or ride alongs to help you get the most of the limited time pushing you and the car . It's all about seat time- Hope you can make it out a few times to give it a shot !

Thank you for the guidance - I will start with the school that 'nomadtrash' suggested and then sign up for an event. And, I am always down for chit chat and BSing, so it sounds like a win-win.

Would something like Track Night in America, which is equally accessible, be better than autocross purely on dollars to seat time? Absolutely. But past a certain threshold, learning to drive quickly is very hard to improve on without instruction, and autocross is definitely the easiest way to get that.

As far as repetition goes, it's definitely important. But consider the fact that as a beginner, 60-90 seconds of hard driving followed by a few minutes of reflection and instruction on how you could get faster before you make your next run might actually be better than blasting around a track for a 20 minute session making the same mistakes over and over again.

Great point - thank you.

You are more likely to test the limits and explore techniques in autox, as the consequences of mistakes are minor. The speeds involved even in something fairly tame like TNiA make a screw up potentially very costly. If you want to get a lot of seat time and get better at high speed driving, DE is excellent. If you want to really get a sense of car control and grip limits, there is no faster tool than autox, IMHO.

This is my goal - thank you.

Don't try and learn car control at a HPDE if you have no prior experience, it could end in tears and empty your pocketbook.

It's been a lot of years since, but I have at least 12 DEs with NASA in the So Cal region. I learned the lines and was getting around the track faster and faster (the last four events were in run group three), but was staring to go off a lot more (thank the Lord that I didn't hurt somebody, my car, or myself). That's why I think I should go back to square one and learn car control.

Equipe Rapide is hosting an autocross school on March 19th in Mineral Wells. You'll get lots of expert advice and practice on slaloms, skid pad, and autocross course. The event is not open for registration yet but when it does open it will probably fill up pretty fast. We will have 28 students with groups of about 4 students per instructor. Watch our website www.autocross.com or our facebook page for more information. We will also post on this forum to announce the event.

Thank you - I will be there!

[Run_Amok]

And, I wish you all a happy, healthy, and prosperous New Year.

[Run_Amok]

Equipe Rapide is hosting an autocross school on March 19th in Mineral Wells. You'll get lots of expert advice and practice on slaloms, skid pad, and autocross course. The event is not open for registration yet but when it does open it will probably fill up pretty fast. We will have 28 students with groups of about 4 students per instructor. Watch our website www.autocross.com or our facebook page for more information. We will also post on this forum to announce the event.

So awesome that ER has that domain name...